tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post7338950430856262869..comments2024-03-28T02:36:04.078-07:00Comments on Health Correlator: How come evolution hasn’t made us immortal? Death, like sex, helps animal populations avoid extinctionNed Kockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-55967901727676980302011-04-22T16:04:45.153-07:002011-04-22T16:04:45.153-07:00Hi,
Great article, well reasoned and well presen...Hi, <br /><br />Great article, well reasoned and well presented. I came to a similar, if not so elegant, conclusion after someone asked me how evolution could be true if it hadn't out-evolved death. The problem parasites & disease present is a strong argument which evaded me, I don't have much knowledge of the life sciences, but I came up with plenty of other reasons why immortality would be a blind alley for life to go down. The massive climate changes in history would likely finish immortal life off if, as you already pointed out, the population didn't outgrow its resources first or it didn't get eaten or destroy itself the way man seems happy to. <br /><br />Taking it a bit further, though, I concluded that evolution actually has conquered death. If you consider all life as a collective organism, evolution is the only way this side of indestructible super creatures to ensure the immortality of that organism . <br /><br />I don't know if a person living a reasonable life span has many, if any of the individual cells they started out with. We consider ourselves to be the same person at 90 as we were when we were born but the broom has had quite a few new handles and heads along the way. Life on this planet is related in a far more complex way than the cells in even the most sophisticated animal, so if we remain essentially the same though our cells grow and die, the extinction and creation of species doesn't necessarily mean the organism is not essentially the same even though its component parts haven't just been replaced but have changed along the way. <br /><br />It seems reasonable to conclude that eternal life on the individual level has been rejected by evolution as a literal dead end, though I wonder if it ever tried it out. Whether some extinct test branch of immortal life lies buried under a volcano somewhere. Still, it's hard to imagine ever obtaining enough satisfaction from knowing our collective organism may have endless longevity to say, okay, this is enough living for me.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14612824821086047995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-85896401994666020512011-02-11T07:49:36.260-08:002011-02-11T07:49:36.260-08:00Long living cells (i.e. long Telomeres) are appare...Long living cells (i.e. long Telomeres) are apparently associated with a REDUCED cancer risk?<br /><br />http://www.healthiertalk.com/more-telomeres-and-cancer-3344Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-6571286980286453442011-01-30T07:28:02.690-08:002011-01-30T07:28:02.690-08:00Thanks Dan. I've seen that episode on TV, and ...Thanks Dan. I've seen that episode on TV, and it is indeed very good.<br /><br />Interesting information, but a little outdated, about the genes coding for FOX proteins.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-33946936698334810812011-01-29T22:26:38.774-08:002011-01-29T22:26:38.774-08:00Good Episode
http://video.pbs.org/video/175455705...Good Episode<br /><br />http://video.pbs.org/video/1754557053Dan M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-72054715260278543182011-01-27T18:29:30.511-08:002011-01-27T18:29:30.511-08:00http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/dp/2011012601http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/dp/2011012601Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-14296510188872437572011-01-17T07:15:21.984-08:002011-01-17T07:15:21.984-08:00Thanks for the info and links Avishek.Thanks for the info and links Avishek.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-64006483703148566242011-01-16T08:55:41.448-08:002011-01-16T08:55:41.448-08:00my bad hahamy bad hahaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05678720294816251435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-35198353341453600132011-01-15T19:56:13.974-08:002011-01-15T19:56:13.974-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05678720294816251435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-33224078282669463872011-01-15T19:55:34.779-08:002011-01-15T19:55:34.779-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05678720294816251435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-12369750396492727012011-01-15T19:52:24.565-08:002011-01-15T19:52:24.565-08:00Interesting, I had not heard of that. I have heard...Interesting, I had not heard of that. I have heard of Waldow and the complications that frequently ensue in the organs from such large stature so that makes sense.<br /><br />Certainly modern science does not accept that anybody ever lived past 122. There is evidence from indian and tibetan/taoist/buddhist mindsets regarding incredibly long lived people. <br />Here is an article of this<br />http://www.secrets-of-longevity-in-humans.com/longevity-in-humans.html<br />That is not very scientific but that's what I could find online. <br />However, other accounts I have read are from some books. One of them was "Chinese Tonic Herbs" by Ron Teeguarden. Here is the story of one such account of the 252 year old Li Qing Yuen, a Taoist, a very widely accepted figure for longevity. What's important to note is that the Taoists revered longevity. <br />http://sta8love8.blogspot.com/2009/04/252-years-old-teh-secret-revelead-here.html<br /><br />He ate the goji berries everyday and that link is the basic story.<br /><br />Also the "Autobiography of a Yogi" is a great book. Many yogis have reported to living very long, one lived to 186 apparently and decided to leave after finding the purpose of life. Dr. Gabriel Cousens talked about him, but the point is that their spiritual practice has an effect on the body that is above and beyond food and exercise, and above the grasp of current science, although many scientists have studied yogis and been perplexed. <br /><br />The "Holographic Universe" I will mention simply because science cannot explain much of the paranormal psychical phenomena presented there. Quantum physics probably will though in the coming centuries. It also influenced my thinking that food and exercise are very limited ways to improve our health<br /><br /><br />Lastly, "The Body Electric" is a great book to read because it may explain how many of the phenomena work. It is the most scientific work I have presented thus far. It is ironic that the book is placed in the "alternative medicine" section as the author was born into the modern scientific community. He mentions how yogis could influence the electromagnetic fields.<br /><br /><br />This information certainly is not accepted by the scientific community, however much of the evidence itself is indeed scientific, and produced from the scientific method, while others we need to wrap our heads around in the way the scientific method cannot.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05678720294816251435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-11521925305416716352011-01-15T19:51:47.100-08:002011-01-15T19:51:47.100-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05678720294816251435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-27053926642618961432011-01-15T19:46:28.037-08:002011-01-15T19:46:28.037-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05678720294816251435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-48900958895617397272011-01-15T19:42:42.952-08:002011-01-15T19:42:42.952-08:00Nice, I had no idea gigantism was related to longe...Nice, I had no idea gigantism was related to longevity, but that is what the science says, I have heard about Waldow and the complications in the various organs that ensue from such physical stature. <br /><br />None of the evidence on incredibly long lived people is 'scientific.' Modern science is very narrow and reductionist of course, while the science in indigenous tribes tends to be holistic. There is evidence from indian and tibetan/taoist/buddhist mindsets regarding incredibly long lived people. <br />Here is an article of this<br />http://www.secrets-of-longevity-in-humans.com/longevity-in-humans.html<br />That is not very scientific but that's what I could find online. <br />However, the accounts I have read are from some books. One of them was "Chinese Tonic Herbs" by Ron Teeguarden. There are a couple accounts there. Here is the story of one such account of the 252 year old Li Qing Yuen, a Taoist. What's important to note is that the Taoists revered longevity. The chinese have a knack for understanding how health comes from within, as seen by their development of medicine, and exercises such as qiqong which support longevity and 'life force,' of qi (chi) as well as jing.<br />http://sta8love8.blogspot.com/2009/04/252-years-old-teh-secret-revelead-here.html<br /><br />He ate the goji berries everyday, apparently<br />In fact the words sound the same I wonder if the author transcribed that segment from the book as it sounds the same.<br /><br />Also the "Autobiography of a Yogi" is a great book. Many yogis have reported to living very long, one lived to 186 apparently and decided to leave after finding the purpose of life. Dr. Gabriel Cousens talked about him, but the point is that their spiritual practice has an effect on the body that is above and beyond food and exercise, and above the grasp of current science, although many scientists have studied yogis and been perplexed. <br /><br />The "Holographic Universe" I am reading now and again seeing how there is much greater than food to overall health, like emotional health which manifests in many physical diseases. Psychics who can detect diseases before physical symptoms however say that thought patterns influence the 'aura' around the body, and then the physical is affected.<br /><br /><br />Lastly, "The Body Electric" is a great book to read because it is modern science, however it is placed int he alternative medicine section since the research is not accepted. If you read through it you may notice how it is pretty unbiased and scientific. I am mentioning this book because it may eplain many unscientifically regarded healing modalities from the East: through the electrical properties of the body. So perhaps the exercises and herbs the taoists ate for longevity acted through electricity. Also I believe he mentions briefly that yogis can control this electric field to a degree, which may impart significant health benefits. They of course do not eat much food, which also increases longevity.<br /><br />Sorry one more thing, might as well add what I can. About electricity: the soil is negatively charged, containing electrons, some evidence of this is presented in "Earthing" which I have not read, so i cannot recommend it yet. However, studies have shown that "grounding," the act of connecting with the earth, by touching the ground, unclumps blood within 30 minutes. That must have a remarkable impact on health.<br /><br />This information certainly is not accepted by the scientific community, however much of the evidence itself is indeed scientific, and produced from the scientific method, while others we need to wrap our heads around in the way the scientific method cannot.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05678720294816251435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-29287667470042531432011-01-15T14:36:36.353-08:002011-01-15T14:36:36.353-08:00Right, there are many Samoans in New Zealand as we...Right, there are many Samoans in New Zealand as well. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson is Samoan, if I am not mistaken. So is David Tua (boxer) and Mark Hunt (MMA fighter). These guys are massive, and a few extra pounds of body fat do not seem to have any negative effect on them.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-47256096933013111512011-01-15T14:35:06.129-08:002011-01-15T14:35:06.129-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-17120289200457727172011-01-15T11:19:22.787-08:002011-01-15T11:19:22.787-08:00Yeah, I used to live in Hawaii, and I listened to ...Yeah, I used to live in Hawaii, and I listened to that "our ancestors were ten feet tall" nonsense many times. There isn't any indisputable evidence. In fact, there isn't any evidence at all.<br /><br />The ruling class--the Ali'i, who are now believed to have conquered the islands and imposed their rule on the earlier, smaller people--were probably Samoans. And Samoans are mighty large people, normally over six feet, sometimes pushing up toward seven feet, and massive on top of it. <br /><br />Not ten feet tall. But they might have seemed ten feet tall to the commoners, who usually didn't have enough to eat. (The last famine in what is now the United States happened in the Ka'u district of the island of Hawai'i.)David Isaakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04928598446742324391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-48571744721893186032011-01-15T06:35:32.959-08:002011-01-15T06:35:32.959-08:00By the way, years ago I was on a tour of Hawaii an...By the way, years ago I was on a tour of Hawaii and the guide said that there was “undisputable” evidence that some of their ancestors were 10 feet tall and lived hundreds of years. Supposedly the evidence was from reliable dating techniques and the proof of the height was the size of the skeletons. Still, there has been no endorsement from the scientific community.<br /><br /> I find the claim regarding height more believable, although somewhat exaggerated. Gigantism happens, and it is a disease usually caused by a tumor on the pituitary gland. People who suffer from it can be very tall, reaching almost the height of 9 feet, and live very short lives. See the article below for Robert Wadlow, considered to have been the tallest person ever. He died at age 22.<br /><br /> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_WadlowNed Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-68674809254734915282011-01-15T06:22:55.648-08:002011-01-15T06:22:55.648-08:00Hi Avishek. I would be interested in seeing those ...Hi Avishek. I would be interested in seeing those records, or getting a link. Perhaps there have been very long-lived individuals in the past, who lived to 150 or beyond, but apparently their genes disappeared. If not, at least some of their descendants would be making news today, as longevity is in part inherited.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-47623167733090927012011-01-15T06:15:30.642-08:002011-01-15T06:15:30.642-08:00why would you doubt there has ever been a human wh...why would you doubt there has ever been a human who has lived longer than 150? Do you really believe that the accepted 122 is the truth because it is verified by the more meticulous records we have today? I would not like to argue this, but the historical accounts of incredible long lived individuals, many of which have been verified cannot be ignored.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05678720294816251435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-39383690592687683152011-01-12T19:03:19.273-08:002011-01-12T19:03:19.273-08:00Anonymoose, I guess you answered your own question...Anonymoose, I guess you answered your own question. It is a bit like targeted drugs that supposedly decrease heart disease, and then end up giving you cancer. One way or another, nature makes sure that you are not around for too long.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-39656661602542935242011-01-12T09:10:37.483-08:002011-01-12T09:10:37.483-08:00How does this tie in with telomeres?
My unders...How does this tie in with telomeres? <br /><br />My understanding is that this bit of dna that is attached to the end, is responsible for the lifespan of a cell. <br /><br />If we could increase the lifespan of cell, would that be heading towards immortality? <br /><br /><br />The flip side of having no telomeres of course is rougue cells. Cancer cells for example, can continue to live and replicate without ever dying.<br /><br />No free lunch I suppose.anonymoosenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-21251978782636180262011-01-12T08:53:15.269-08:002011-01-12T08:53:15.269-08:00no joke, ever since i read this post i have been t...no joke, ever since i read this post i have been telling myself that. pretend i can live forever, and all the sudden i just calm down. its strange, but i like it, especially when i am trying to go to bed!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-88930535150101922102011-01-11T19:00:33.036-08:002011-01-11T19:00:33.036-08:00Hi Mal. Actually thinking that, and acting as thou...Hi Mal. Actually thinking that, and acting as though, you will live a long life is one of the common characteristics of the Okinawans. Their approach goes something like this: “Don’t sweat it, there are several years ahead, it will get done.” It certainly reduces stress, which may be one of the biggest killers in modern urban societies. This may contribute to them living long and health lives, even though they may also be genetically more likely to do so.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-80816320011444378362011-01-11T17:13:25.687-08:002011-01-11T17:13:25.687-08:00you know this post made me think....if there was t...you know this post made me think....if there was the possibility of immorality, you would never die, i bet a lot of people could learn to CALM down and stop stressing. if you always knew tomorrow would be here, dont you think you would always want to genuinely do well. there would be no finish line, nothing to prove ;while youre here', no debts to have 'x' years to pay off, no rush to the end of life trying to accomplisn x y and z...<br /><br />i dunno, just what sparked my thoughtAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-30613063147051854552011-01-11T16:30:54.657-08:002011-01-11T16:30:54.657-08:00Actually I doubt that there has ever been a human ...Actually I doubt that there has ever been a human being that lived to be 150, but I may be wrong. The lady on the article linked by js290 lived to be 122; she is considered to have been the world’s oldest person ever.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.com