tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post5141470072183148817..comments2024-03-28T02:36:04.078-07:00Comments on Health Correlator: The China Study II: Animal protein, wheat, and mortality … there is something odd here!Ned Kockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-40217495700634161422013-07-25T23:42:46.722-07:002013-07-25T23:42:46.722-07:00Blank, read Ned's previous comment. From the d...Blank, read Ned's previous comment. From the dataset, mortality was not significantly associated to wealth.Richard Hachemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16922794649131222436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-73322615494433613482013-06-25T22:18:29.246-07:002013-06-25T22:18:29.246-07:00As per capita income rises, so too does consumptio...As per capita income rises, so too does consumption of animal fats. Therefore consumption of wheat vs. meat may be highly dependent on income. And of course higher income people have better access to health care. So consumption of wheat = low income = poor healthcare = higher mortality<br />blankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15923997964439498256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-42749081470056953902011-12-19T10:50:25.884-08:002011-12-19T10:50:25.884-08:00Hey great information! I like this post 'cause...Hey great information! I like this post 'cause is just what I was looking for so please keep sharing things like this and keep up the good work.best pharmacyhttp://www.bestpharmacy.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-72040718600044412982011-11-05T15:06:29.224-07:002011-11-05T15:06:29.224-07:00These kind of post are always inspiring and I pref...These kind of post are always inspiring and I prefer to read quality content so I happy to find many good point here in the post, writing is simply great, thank you for the posthcghttp://www.cheaphcgdiet.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-12218571976057837692011-10-30T21:25:43.753-07:002011-10-30T21:25:43.753-07:00proteins solutions Protein and organic proteins pr...proteins solutions Protein and organic proteins probably have the same effects on health. It's the proteins package that's likely to matter.Vapir No2 Vaporizerhttp://www.gotvape.com/vaporizer/portable-vaporizers/vapir-no2-vaporizer.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-39941224124436607382011-10-28T07:02:00.506-07:002011-10-28T07:02:00.506-07:00Hi, Ned--
Hard to get precise details. No sat fat...Hi, Ned--<br /><br />Hard to get precise details. No sat fat, no trans. The rather confused and fragmentary references I can find seem to echo the composition of wheat germ oil, which is about half omega-6, and most of the rest is mono.<br /><br />Of course, since the only way I find it appetizing is stir-fried, the total fat intake ends up looking very much like the profile of what I fry it in...David Isaakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04928598446742324391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-74406889197566025622011-10-27T06:46:57.932-07:002011-10-27T06:46:57.932-07:00Thanks David. So it is mostly protein. What is the...Thanks David. So it is mostly protein. What is the type of fat (2 g)?<br /><br /> For those interested, here is a photo of mock duck:<br /><br /> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wheat_gluten_(vegetarian_mock_duck)_2007.jpgNed Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-91841616614993784282011-10-27T06:43:43.076-07:002011-10-27T06:43:43.076-07:00Spam comment above delete.Spam comment above delete.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-29986371869032342622011-10-26T20:12:35.783-07:002011-10-26T20:12:35.783-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.wedding dresseshttp://www.weddingdressshop.ca/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-86884559542669729742011-10-26T11:38:48.438-07:002011-10-26T11:38:48.438-07:00"I guess they call seitan mock meat, or mock ..."I guess they call seitan mock meat, or mock duck, over there – or so I heard."<br /><br />That's the stuff. The pack in my refrigerator (sold in water like fresh tofu) says that per serving we have:<br /><br />Calories: 110<br />Total Fat: 2 g<br />Total Carb: 4 g<br />Fiber: 2 g<br />Protein: 20 g<br /><br />Being from grain the protein, of course, is a little short on lysine.<br /><br />Eat it as a sole food source and you're asking for "rabbit starvation" even if you get lysine from somewhere. But fried with an excess of coconut oil (and either cajun spices or black bean sauce), it's an interesting addition to a low-carb diet. <br /><br />I'll let you know about my future morbidity. But seitan never seems to have adverse effects on me.<br /><br />Bread is an entirely different matter--so I can easily believe that wheat flour poses some problems.David Isaakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04928598446742324391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-29694359357003340262011-10-26T06:52:42.196-07:002011-10-26T06:52:42.196-07:00I guess these Japanese centenarians are not all th...I guess these Japanese centenarians are not all that different from the folks in this dataset:<br /><br /> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1407826<br /><br /> Abstract: The present paper examines the relationship of nutritional status to further life expectancy and health status in the Japanese elderly based on 3 epidemiological studies. 1. Nutrient intakes in 94 Japanese centenarians investigated between 1972 and 1973 showed a higher proportion of animal protein to total proteins than in contemporary average Japanese. 2. High intakes of milk and fats and oils had favorable effects on 10-year (1976-1986) survivorship in 422 urban residents aged 69-71. The survivors revealed a longitudinal increase in intakes of animal foods such as eggs, milk, fish and meat over the 10 years. 3. Nutrient intakes were compared, based on 24-hour dietary records, between a sample from Okinawa Prefecture where life expectancies at birth and 65 were the longest in Japan, and a sample from Akita Prefecture where the life expectancies were much shorter. Intakes of Ca, Fe, vitamins A, B1, B2, C, and the proportion of energy from proteins and fats were significantly higher in the former than in the latter. Intakes of carbohydrates and NaCl were lower.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-49414729918428885492011-10-25T18:40:21.630-07:002011-10-25T18:40:21.630-07:00By the way, one of my doctoral students who is Chi...By the way, one of my doctoral students who is Chinese was eating the other day what he said was a very common type of candy in China. I asked what it was made of, and he said wheat.<br /><br />Apparently wheat products are more common in China than many people think.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-79584832649463808692011-10-25T18:39:00.623-07:002011-10-25T18:39:00.623-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-79912512694712357532011-10-25T18:36:32.418-07:002011-10-25T18:36:32.418-07:00Hi David. I don’t think wheat flour was somehow co...Hi David. I don’t think wheat flour was somehow confused with seitan; that is not compatible with the plant protein numbers, which suggest that the wheat flour they consumed was at most 15% protein.<br /><br /> Interesting points though. <br /><br /> I guess they call seitan mock meat, or mock duck, over there – or so I heard.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-54261320849462354802011-10-25T17:41:55.897-07:002011-10-25T17:41:55.897-07:00I would expect that there would be big differences...I would expect that there would be big differences between consuming wheat flour per se and consuming gluten directly (which, as seitan and its variants is a major food in China). But I have no idea how the sorted through that in the stats--or it it were in fact noted at all.<br /><br />Some would expect more morbidity with higher gluten intake. I would lean the other way; I think most of what is wrong with wheat is water-soluble. In other words, I think that gluten is probably healthy for people while wheat flour iself is not. <br /><br />A minority (and possibly crackpot view), I know. All I can say in its defense is that I know people who react poorly to wheat and other grains, and have zero problems with seitan.<br /><br />The Campbell data probably can't answer such questions.<br /><br />But I'm interested to hear about Factor X!David Isaakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04928598446742324391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-34344350849147933842011-10-25T17:08:16.483-07:002011-10-25T17:08:16.483-07:00Hi EB. Indeed, soybean products are a source of pl...Hi EB. Indeed, soybean products are a source of plant protein. But when you compare the amounts of wheat flour and plant protein consumed in the dataset, it seems that virtually all of the plant protein consumed is coming from wheat. These two variables are also very highly correlated.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-79368856200735749182011-10-25T16:05:59.293-07:002011-10-25T16:05:59.293-07:00thanx for doing all the heavy lifting! But, would...thanx for doing all the heavy lifting! But, wouldn't plant protein also include soy, which I would think would add a non-trivial amount of protein to the diet.Exceptionally Brashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13177479330600606059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-25477001916066882872011-10-24T17:34:49.658-07:002011-10-24T17:34:49.658-07:00Hi Anon. I had to restrict my dataset on mortality...Hi Anon. I had to restrict my dataset on mortality to only a limited number of variables, because it takes quite a lot of effort to align the rows correctly for columns (i.e., variables) on different sheets, among other data manipulation problems (the data provided on the Oxford site is not user friendly at all).<br /><br /> Still, I have just checked the table of univariate correlations with mortality that have a P value lower than 0.05 (i.e., that are statistically significant), on the monograph, and income doesn’t seem to show up there at all.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-46842660508193174922011-10-24T17:21:19.268-07:002011-10-24T17:21:19.268-07:00Interesting. I came across this link from a twit...Interesting. I came across this link from a twitter account link; I'll have to read your other posts about this as well, but just a quick question; has income disparity been taken into consideration in these county numbers? I don't know the exact case for China, but there is the impression that folks who eat a diet containing more grain and less meat are of a lower income. Folks of a lower income in many countries often die of avoidable causes because of less access to adequate healthcare. <br /><br />Perhaps you've covered this already, and I'm not disputing your claims here - I don't know if these facts hold true for these counties or not, nor if the information is available. Just curious. Regardless, all of this is quite interesting!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-4285559662302648912011-10-24T13:43:16.666-07:002011-10-24T13:43:16.666-07:00Dairy is damned tricky. But as a rough proxy in Ch...Dairy is damned tricky. But as a rough proxy in China I would say yes. I do not expect to find long- fermented cheese down there, so no French confounder. A Finnish scenario instead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-10087747242986218392011-10-24T13:37:32.888-07:002011-10-24T13:37:32.888-07:00As a rule of thumb the lower the average insulin l...As a rule of thumb the lower the average insulin level the longer the expected lifespan for any given ideological diet. So I would expect milk to be a very different animal in this respect. I would even rephrase the benefits of caloric restriction as the the benefits of insulin restriction. That's why I would check for milk as factor x.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-82565122012006903782011-10-24T13:34:28.186-07:002011-10-24T13:34:28.186-07:00Thanks Anon. So I guess you mean dairy in general,...Thanks Anon. So I guess you mean dairy in general, right?Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-18738042902780390872011-10-24T13:04:55.618-07:002011-10-24T13:04:55.618-07:00Because of insulin NedBecause of insulin NedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-46429957440571397622011-10-24T12:41:35.849-07:002011-10-24T12:41:35.849-07:00Funny that a re-tweeter said that animal protein “...Funny that a re-tweeter said that animal protein “may not be so bad after all”. Must have been someone really impressed by FOK, but who nevertheless re-tweeted this!Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8859456735165996893.post-55202411038184446992011-10-24T12:39:42.811-07:002011-10-24T12:39:42.811-07:00Paul, Aaron: Was going to get everything in one po...Paul, Aaron: Was going to get everything in one post, but realized I needed other analyses.Ned Kockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02755560885749335053noreply@blogger.com